The Oz environment in which Scott Rush will live or die / Vleeptron considers bringing back the death penalty for Anonymous Driveby Comments

Verbal Mysteries of Australia:
the bushranger Ned Kelly
(Mick Jagger played Kelly in the movie)

On 9 September 06, VleeptronZ posted about a young Australian, Scott Rush, condemned to face an Indonesian firing squad for smuggling heroin.

(He was originally sentenced to life in prison, but he appealed. The appeals court ratcheted it up to execution. So much for appealing.)

The interglobal crowd which reads Vleeptron obsessively went wild: Utterly nobody said a word. Yawn City.

Until this morning.

==============

2 Comments:

Anonymous said...

I think these young people recognise that, having done the crime, they must do the time - what is upsetting many Australians though is that the Australian Federal Police, in direct contradiction of the Government’s stated policy to not extradite anyone to a country where the death sentence applies, chose to effectively send them to their deaths.

Legal sophists can argue that the Bali Nine were not being extradited, that they chose to travel to Indonesia - but that is fudging the issue, especially as the AFP had been contacted by Scott Rush’s father and been asked to intervene before they left Australia. The AFP then proceeded to contact the Indonesian police to say when the group would arrive, and where.

Many Australians now feel that there is no point in trusting official policies of the Government while they are welded to their one and only aim, which is to curry favour with Indonesia.

Thu Oct 12, 09:17:10 PM 2006

Bob Merkin said...

Hmmm I am re-thinking my position on capital punishment. You wrote one of the most thoughtful, informed, interesting Comments Vleeptron's ever received, and you're ANONYMOUS!!! NO LINK!!!

Listen, Anonymous, I've been to Oz and I smell Oz on your typing fingers. "favour" -- you're an Ozzie. You're Vleeptron's first and only Human-On-The-Ground in Australia, and you're ANONYMOUS!

Vleeptron is simultaneously outraged and grateful.

Yes, the really saddest and most miserable part of the Scott Rush story is that when his father desperately sought help to stop his son from his fool's errand, he called his own police force. That's what they teach kids in D.A.R.E. class -- when drugs are involved, The Policeman Is Your Friend, call a cop.

Anonymous, Vleeptron really wishes you'd say more. About this, about why you're interested in this, about *anything* about Australia and its neighbo(u)rs.

Don't make Vleeptron bring back capital punishment for Anonymous Driveby Comments.

==============

The Sydney Morning Herald (Sydney Australia)
Tuesday 9 October 2006

News Blog
Posted by Geoff Spencer
Geoff Spencer was a correspondent in Indonesia from 1997 to 2002.

Everybody needs
good neighbours

Will Australia and Indonesia ever really understand one another or are we just too different?

In Jakarta, some nationalists grumble that the Howard government has been preachy and aggressively interventionist over East Timor and the granting of visas to Papua asylum seekers.

For our part, we seem confused and suspicious of what's been going on in our northern neighbour.

We're afraid of terror threats and Islamic militants in the wake of the two bombings of Bali in 2002 and last year.

While some of us are relieved that key Bali bombers are on Indonesia's death row, we're upset that some of the Bali Nine could also face the firing squad, including 20-year-old convicted drug courier Scott Rush who has just written to Australian authorities pleading for help to save his life.

While Schapelle Corby seems likely to grow old inside Kerobokan Prison despite the media frenzy that enveloped her case, Abu Bakar Bashir is free despite allegations that he is the spiritual head of Jemaah Islamiah, the group blamed for bombing the Sari Club and Paddy's Bar four years ago.

Of course, there have been times when the two countries have come together. Australians applauded when people power overthrew the dictator Soeharto in 1998 and we dug deep into our pockets after the tsunami wiped out much of Sumatra's northern tip.

Nonetheless, a deep shadow hangs over our perceptions of Indonesia even as it tries to build a democracy with a directly elected president, a multi-party parliament and free press.

A new survey by the Lowy Institute in Sydney found that 47 per cent of Australians think our relations are getting worse. In contrast, 59 per cent think our relations with non-democratic China are improving. Read how the Herald reported the survey here.

Many of the 1,000 Australians surveyed "...felt that Indonesia was essentially controlled by the military, that Indonesia was a dangerous source of Islamic terrorism and that Australia was right to worry about Indonesia as a military threat. They were divided over whether Indonesian cooperation with Australia had been important in helping us contain the terrorist threat in the region, and whether Indonesia was an emerging democracy. Nonetheless, respondents thought it was very important that Australia and Indonesia work together to develop a close relationship."

But can we do it?

============

LATEST COMMENTS

I think the problem with the Australian perception of Indonesia is that it is swayed heavily by the anti-Indonesian media and the anti-Indonesian Howard Government. Indonesia has many problems, but few of them should stir up feelings of fear and hatred.

I think the best way to judge a country is to get to know its people and to try and cut through the politics. On a recent journey through Indonesia, the ordinary person in the street loved Australians. They universally agreed that the so-called relationship between Australians and Indonesians is sullied artificially.

Indonesia is a country of over 200million people. It has hundreds of different cultures, hundreds of different languages and an extremely diverse landscape. It's a beautiful place to visit. Sure, there are terrorists present, but the issue is no more significant than anywhere else in the world. (not significant)

* Posted by: Ad at October 9, 2006 03:01 PM

I agree Ad ... I really know very little about our northern neighbours and I would like to know more. It is a shame Australians are not encouraged to spend more time vsiting and vice-verc.

It appears that the respective governments are also happy to remain insular and this is not a good thing.

I am sure we have much to share, particularly in trade and services, as well as mutual protection of our region. Whilst we may appear to have some clash in our national values I am sure a little more familiarity can help this situation.

* Posted by: Glenn :) at October 9, 2006 03:20 PM

When they jailed Schapelle Corby for 20 years over a lousy bag of pot the Indonesians were sending us a message. And the message was "we don't like you, we don't want you here, we don't want your money, go holiday in Fiji in Thailand". I hear and obey.

* Posted by: Jenny at October 9, 2006 03:22 PM

Indonesians & Australians get on fine in general but it's at govt level where there are difficulties from time to time. It's important to remember that our cultures are very different and therefore we don't always agree on certain things but we are friends and should strive to always remain so. Sensationalist media reporting certainly doesn't help.

* Posted by: Ted B at October 9, 2006 03:24 PM

I wanted to comment but no need. "Ad" has said it all. Marvellously put. As an Aussie who knows Indonesia well, couldn't agree more with everything you said.

* Posted by: Redundant at October 9, 2006 03:25 PM

The mainstraem media simply cannott report on complex issues in a responsible way. They report the lowest common denomiter and that usually involves reporting of student riots or how "our" Shapelle is being unfairly tried by the barbaric Indonesians.

Indosesia is emabarking on a slow move towards Democracy. It needs our support and understanding, not the racially motivated angle we get from the tabloids and shock jocks.

* Posted by: Matthew at October 9, 2006 03:26 PM

Update: actually i don't agree that the Howard is anti-Indonesian, but much of the media certainly is - Channel 9, Daily Tele???.

* Posted by: Redundant at October 9, 2006 03:30 PM

Indonesia has one of the worst human rights records of the last 20 years. Do some research on this and I promise you, you will be appalled!!!

Every time we "seem" to upset Indonesia it is up to Australia to go and make amends!!! Why should we go cap in hand to them??? They have to realise that we as a country and a people are allowed to have and express our views as we see fit. Not have to worry about upsetting them!!!

As far Corby and The Bali Nine are concerned, if our Prime Minister or anybody else makes any comments that the Indonesians dont like, we are accused of meddling in their politics and religion!!! Bashir gets out of prison in a couple of years for heading a major regional terrorist organisation that has killed over 200 people!!! You have to be JOKING!!!

Why do you think that all our major military bases have moved to the north of Australia!!! Why are all our major wargames based in the top of the country??? Our biggest threat comes from our direct north/northwest. The major problem they have is that they dont have the sea or airlift capacity.

As a race, the Indonesians are a great people. Open, friendly and warm. But these are not the people in charge of their countries political parties or their military.

* Posted by: Matt at October 9, 2006 03:33 PM

In his recently discovered diary, ambrozi (planner of the bali bombings) writes: "Australia will pay for their involvement in Iraq"

'Nuff said.

* Posted by: anti imperialist at October 9, 2006 03:44 PM

Fair enough if we underline Indonesian's appaling record of Human Rights abuses, but then again, what about Australian's Human Rights abuses? WE also have a very long list of appaling Human rights abuses dated back since the arrival of Captain Cook. I personally think it is the role of the media that is responsible to worsen the relationship over the years.

* Posted by: Jade at October 9, 2006 04:05 PM

Matt's comments are your typical misinformed comments about Indonesian. I have lived in Indonesia for 15 years and the media reporting I see on the ABC and most Western sites is way off reality. e.g. CNN are famous for running footage of the 1998 riots everytime they run a negative story on Indonesia, which is most of the time.

On the other hand Ad's remarks are real and made by someone who has at least been to the country.

Bashir was not convicted of terrorist crimes, he was convicted of immigration and other minor charges. The judicial process was carried out and a thing called lack of evidence was the problem.

To suggest that Indonesia is a threat of invading Australia's northern shores is so dumb its laughable. It's never going to happen, and even if it did, it would be fun to watch any army trying to get through the 'top end'.

The drug runners knew the consequences, and now they got caught, the Indonesians are being critized....that's hypoctical.

Indonesia, and the Indonesian government is not a threat to Australia. The biggest threat to world peace/stability is that Mr Bush's american government.

* Posted by: ice at October 9, 2006 04:09 PM

When they jailed Schapelle Corby for 20 years over a lousy bag of pot the Indonesians were sending us a message. And the message was "we don't like you, we don't want you here, we don't want your money, go holiday in Fiji in Thailand". I hear and obey.
* Posted by: Jenny at October 9, 2006 03:22 PM

Actually i think what they were trying to say is "We have very harsh penalties for importing drugs into our country", but i can see how you would be confused...

* Posted by: dude at October 9, 2006 04:14 PM

As one who has lived and worked in Asia over many years I could not agree more with Ad. Re Jenny's comment , you would have to be completely dumb not to realise that drugs are a no go with severe penalties in many Asian countries yet people like Jenny continue to expect these countries to behave the same way as us. What arrogance !!! yet when the view is the other way around many Australians are only too quick to proclaim "mind your own business - we are Australians and we do things the way we want to" - what hypocrisy!!!!

* Posted by: Howard at October 9, 2006 04:40 PM

Jenny, if you thought that was just a lousy bag of pot, you must smoke weed evrrryday

* Posted by: Steve-o at October 9, 2006 04:54 PM

It is arrogant and stupid to dismiss people who are wary of Indonesia as racist. People are wary of Indonesia for good reason.

The Bali Bombings were terrorist attacks perpetrated against Westerners on Indonesian soil, and while it is all very well and good to say "Oh, but that's just a few extremists", the Indonesian government is hardly going out of its way to stamp down on terrorism, what with letting Bashir, the known spiritual leader of JI, out of prison early.

On top of that, Indonesia has proven itself to be a wretchedly ungrateful nation. Australia gave more aid to Indonesia in the wake of the Boxing Day Tsunami than any other nation. Despite this act of goodwill from Australia, not long afterwards Indonesia was sentencing our people to death for smuggling drugs, demanding we violate international law and not let in Papuan refugees to appease them, demanding we tolerate their abuse of human rights (just think East Timor), and hypocritically demanding that we stay out of their legal business with the drug smugglers while dictating how we handle the Papuan asylum seeker case.

Put that together with the fact that Indonesia has a bloated military, and is what Osama bin Laden considers to be a great reserve of people to aid in the global Jihad against the West, and Australians have every right and cause to be wary of Indonesia.

* Posted by: Iain F at October 9, 2006 05:03 PM

I read some earlier comments posted in this media. I wish some people there hold Indonesian passpor and let me hold and be proud of Australian one.
If they could not see what is so clear under their noses, why don't they try to live in Indonesia? And let us see what their perspective will be then.
I lived there long enough to say: I am very grateful to be here in Australia, and happy with the current government who has made a surplus out of the dent in the economics, before Howard's time.
In regards of the question. "Can We Do It? (relationship between Indo and Aust)" the answer is "Can two walk together unless they are agreed?"

Jenny (at Oct 9, 2006 03:22 PM)'s, comment is really wise. Take heed of the warning !
If you really appreciate Indonesia, try to listen to their 'language'.
and to understand their 'culture' or/and 'belief system'

* Posted by: IndoPassportHolder at October 9, 2006 05:13 PM

When you can get sentenced to 3 years jail for helping a terrorist plot that killed innocent people last year, but get the death sentence for being a drug mule, then it is quite clear that we are going to misunderstand Indonesians. I am not defending the Bali 9 - as stupid as they are, they are yet to have been proven to have actually killed anyone. Whereas the gentleman who was jailed earlier this year helped a plot kill innocent locals and tourists.

Where is the justice in that I ask you?

* Posted by: Kate at October 9, 2006 05:20 PM

I lived in Indonesia for 5 years where I travelled extensively, and learnt the language. I can honestly say there is no more wonderful place in the world. It is extremely beautiful, has the most amazing climate and Indonesians are the most kind hearted, hospitable people anywhere in the world. Australia should fully embrace Indonesia, we should welcome Indonesian people here and we should all visit Indonesia (and not only Bali).

* Posted by: malcolm at October 9, 2006 05:32 PM

What we often forget is that our opinions on countries that we know little about is formed from what we see in the media. And the media concentrates on politics and, quite often, the negative aspects of a country.

When we hear opinions of Indonesians talking about Australia, it is often the opinion that we see on the news or read in the paper of a politician, convicted terrorist or the like. Not the opinion of the average person in the street, who probably has little or no opinion on us one way or the other, and would have no problem welcoming us to their country.

For people to say after the bombings in Bali that we should cancel and boycott all travel to Indonesia is totally ridiculous and will hurt far many more people there who depend on us for income, than it will do good.

Most of the people who say things like that, I dare say have never left Australia and have never seen the warm kindness of 99% of the Indonesian (and Asian) population.

* Posted by: Lachlan at October 9, 2006 05:33 PM

As long as these Asians stay in Asia.That's all we want

* Posted by: Alex at October 9, 2006 06:23 PM

When they jailed Schapelle Corby for 20 years over a lousy bag of pot the Indonesians were sending us a message. And the message was "we don't like you, we don't want you here, we don't want your money, go holiday in Fiji in Thailand". I hear and obey.

Posted by: Jenny at October 9, 2006 03:22 PM

Well Jenny, if you do not wish to go to Bali, you could travel to Thailand and try bringing "lousy bag of pot" of yours into that country. I'd like to see what it will become of you. Maybe you will end up in the famous "Bangkok Hilton"?

* Posted by: UpTownGirl at October 9, 2006 06:32 PM

I have been to Indonesia on many occasions, and do speak quite a bit of Bahasa.

I am quite a amazed how little the Australians knows about the Indonesian, apart from what they read or watched in the news. And from my conversation with Australians here, I realized it will be along way before any kind of trust will ever develop.

To give an example, a friend attended an Education department training (I do not wish to mention the state) recently. In the training, it covered the understanding of the northern neighbour religious and cultural believes. Two facts presented were wrong. And these were major errors - religious. When my friend pointed that out, they were quite defensive about it.

Yes, it is true that there are an element of militant religious extremism (1%). I, myself a Muslim, don't agree on this extremism which probably came from the anti-US sentiment. And Australia, wanting to align itelf with the US, is putting itself within the extremist firing line.

BUT the majority of the people of Indonesia are not concerned about threatening its southern neighbour. They are already trying to makes end meet - surviving the day to day living.

For whatever crap justice system they may have, or in many other countries as well, generally they quite nice people on the ground.

* Posted by: Waz at October 9, 2006 06:44 PM

Unfortunately Australians will not ever understand Indonesia or even tolerate other cultures. Australians of British descent still do not have the tolerance to attempt to understand the original inhabitants of this country let alone extend their understanding to people of other cultures. Look at the response to the ethic values of the 1960's. Unfortately not much has changed in the minds of the predominate culture in Australia. "Conquer and dominate", the British colony is well and truly entrenched. But beware ....there is a new order on its way.

* Posted by: Esther at October 9, 2006 07:01 PM

I'm of Indonesian descent and I feel the very biased media treatment Indonesia has got here is uncalled for. I remember the extreme feeling of xenophobia raised during the Corby case and the hysteria from the media about it.

The media knows stories that pit people against a 'foreign enemy' sell well, regardless of the implications it has on the people or country they are aiming.

The funny thing is, the way a lot of Australians view Indonesians is the way a lot of Indonesians over there view Australia.

I think both sides need to get rid of their preconceptions and communicate. I'm sure they'll find out a lot of nice things about each other, and will be able to work together.

* Posted by: Jo at October 9, 2006 07:01 PM

Just thought it might be worth pointing out to those who seem to think that tsunami aid = lesser penalties for Aussie drug runners, that an independent judiciary is one of the things we as a country have been trying to promote in Indonesia.

Yes, it sucks that some dumb kids may well be executed for hauling heroin around.

But to suggest the Indo government should intervene in the courts every time they come up with a decision Aussies don't like runs contrary to one of the hallmarks of a vibrant democracy - independent courts.

If you truly are afraid that Indonesia could ever invade Australia, then ensuring that country and its wonderful people have a democratic government and strong civil institutions is one of the surest ways to make sure that never happens.

Undermining judicial independence - which is still developing there - is a surefire way to promote a return to the bad old days of military dictatorship ... and that is where the true threat to this country lies.

* Posted by: Clarifier at October 9, 2006 07:33 PM

I'm an Indonesian who has been living in Australia as a permanent resident for the past 6 years. I have to say I love Australia the more and more i stay here.
Most of you are so spot on, on your opinion; it is the government that is fighting not the people.

Many Indonesian who lives here are grateful to be here and live the Australian way and many Australian who visit and live in Indonesia love it there and live the Indonesian way.
Unfortunately politicians would not do the same thing. As a politician you will try to convince the people to believe what they believe and obviously in a lot of cases that has worked.

Yes I agree that Indonesia has a VERY harsh penalty over drugs, but so does Thailand, Singapore and Malaysia (last 2 are both in the commonwealth).

And Yes I agreed that all the Bali bombers should be punished and cut into pieces, mind you I cried 12 days over that and still very sad every time I remember the events.

But none of this means Indonesians hate Australians.

* Posted by: Emmalia at October 9, 2006 07:50 PM

Am currently working in Banda Aceh and and find living here a personal quest for progress for everyone(at a rate that can only be possible in a country not strangled by business 'rhetoric' and beuraucracy) and solid and pure interest in the development of a democracy.

Sure they have a way to go, however, you can not expect an overnight transformation. I have found the people here work hard (most weekends included), have exceptional manners, are always happy and dont complain about anything. It has made a welcome change to doing business in Australia.

I didnt realise until I lived here but the Australian press is extremely anti-Indonesian. I suspect this would be sure to change as the regions self realisation shows them to be what they are. Yes, different colour, religion etc... but an amazing diverse culture that Australians should embrace.

* Posted by: Gemm at October 9, 2006 08:43 PM

Most Australians know buggera ll about Indonesia and I think future generations will know even less. I studied Bahasa at high school through a federal government scheme (set up by Keating) that ran for ten years. I visited Indonesia twice during my studies and on an individual level got to know so much more about our closest neighbour. The Howard government has ceased this SE Asian language program and reintroduced European languages in our high schools. (French is so useful to learn?!?!?!?) So future generations if children will not have the same opportunity I had. If our own governemt doesn't value the relationship, I don't think the relationship between us and our neighbours will get any better.

* Posted by: Mark at October 9, 2006 09:18 PM

Why do we need to be friendly towards a country that openly supports terroist actions. Indonesia is a country that is fervently muslim and that religion doesn't tolerate our own core religious beliefs and relaxed lifestyle.

How much support do you want to give to a foreign country that would really like to overrun us all and take controll from us and then turn Australia into a muslim country.They have stated this many times.

It seems from the above comments, that the only comments for friendly ties with Indonesia are from those people who go there for cheap holidays.

Australians, wake up before it is too late.

* Posted by: chris at October 9, 2006 09:38 PM

The deal about collecting back monies that have been donated to the Tsunami tragedy is ridiculous. We might as well not give in the first place if you to expect anything in return.

Even the so called 'the most powerful country' in the world had to open their arms for foreign aid hence Katrina in South east of US.

Donations has no bound and definetely means "expect no return" if we do I think the term should be ammended to INVESTMENT!!!

* Posted by: Nanda at October 9, 2006 10:14 PM

I used to travel to Indoneasia-Bali back in the early 90's. I found the Balinese people were lovely caring people.

However,I found the miltary police sly.I for one did see with my own eyes and ears selling drugs, mushrooms and heavens knows what else illegal to all the travellers in Kuta beach to make a buck.
How can we have any relations when there own Government are so corrupt?

x traveller to Bali

* Posted by: JZ at October 9, 2006 10:21 PM

People like Jenny are the reason I gave up trying to explain Indonesia to most Australians long ago. If you just see it as a place to go on a vacation, well better you stay away.

Disclaimer. Some may find me biased. I am married to an Indonesian, have spent a ton of time in country, speak the language, written papers on its culture and politics. My soon to be born child will be an Indonesian citizen.

Griping about the Indonesian government is one thing. My wife does it all the time. Me too. Corrupt, beholden to outdated Javanese modes of power and most worryingly, allowing religious influence to creep into the formerly secular state. However, talk to the people on the street, especially in the big cities and you will see a different face to the country. Moderately religious or secular, even devout but non-political (as are most of my in-laws), savvy, stylish, urbane and inventive people, who in spite of a government run by theives and crooks, manage to make the place work and work well.

On the relations front, so much more understanding is needed from both ends. Knee-jerk press in both countries feed the same old prejudices. Reification of Islam as monolithic at our end only compounds the issue. Ultimately, we need to realise a stable, prosperous Indonesia is in our best interests. Turning away in fear and ignorance will cost us dearly.

* Posted by: Aaronm at October 9, 2006 11:29 PM

R U originally from a bactery, a monkey or a creation, U R not that much different from the rest. ('coz they also either came from a bactery, a monkey or a creation). What differs you from the others is what you have in your heart and mind. Coz it determines how you look and act upon, at things surround you. Can you guarantee the same person who greet you with smile on the street will act wiser than his/her leader, if that person has the leader possition?

So.., Alex (06:23 pm), where are you from ?

* Posted by: 1inacrowd at October 9, 2006 11:29 PM

Indonesia will NEVER be a military threat to Australia simply because they do not have the military capabilities to attack powerhouse like Australia.

I have first hand experience socialising with high rank Indonesian military personals (father's connection). They often like to boast on how they intimidate their opponents in any case scenario. This could interpret the current relationship of Indonesia towards Australia. Military personals (SBY) do not like to be look down by others. Therefore, the Indonesian government will always intimidate their neighbouring countries.

Under the SBY government, much of the military power (military have a lot of power during the Soeharto era) have been delegated to the Police, thus SBY is trying to reform Indonesia to the 'western' model. Give Indonesia time democratise their society.

Corby should be in jail because she simply do not have substantial evidence to argue with the court, because most of the time she cries and try to win the sympathy of the court (which will never goanna happen). The Australian media instead of reporting the evidences that Corby gave, they rather report on how Corby cries, pleas and some poor treatment that Corby received in Jail. Obviously, the Australian media was just trying to create an array of sympathy on Corby case.

There is no doubt that there are terrorist cells in Indonesia, and so do Australia, US and Uk. The Indonesian government do not have the resources to tackle terrorism alone, therefore they need the help of Australia.

Many of Muslims in Indonesia are moderate Muslims, but there are extremist groups (like Bashir) who would like to 'recruit' moderate Muslims because these extremist groups are losing their place in the society as most Indonesians strive to live in democracy.

Multiculturalism in Australia is still at their lowest level because the government has not been trying hard enough to integrate different cultures. Should the Howard government try to be more involved in Multiculturalism, they would develop policy to achieve "Singapore Solution". "Singapore solution"- 4 major races living in harmony.

The question I would like to ask Australians is: Do you think the Australian media is helping you to understand Indonesia path towards democracy? I believe not.

* Posted by: Lombok at October 9, 2006 11:46 PM

I don't believe John Howard is anti indonesia at all, considering he tried to push through new immigration bills to return back to sending refugees over the whole Papua asylum seekers after indonesia clearly over reacted and demanded we reverse our decision.

On one hand we try our best to appease them with aid, and the whole Papua Asylum issue right after they accuse us of getting involved with interfering with Indonesia right as a sovereign nation and their judicial system.

I have nothing against the people, I've never truly meet a indonesian and I am pretty sure they are nice people but our political point of view is too different present to be resolved.

Probably in a generation or two it may change but not presently.

Personal note to "Alex" i find that rather insulting considering I am an Australian of asian descent.

* Posted by: Youngbloke at October 9, 2006 11:50 PM

As long as these Asians stay in Asia.That's all we want

Posted by: Alex at October 9, 2006 06:23 PM

And where exactly do you think we live? In Europe or something? Wake up and smell the dirt. You might want to move back to Mother England. Oh wait, even there you will find plenty of people of Asian descent!

* Posted by: Budz at October 10, 2006 01:23 AM